Ghostbusters, Cattle Farms, and Miracles: A Pastor's Unusual Ministry - Life Bursts Episode 59

On this week's episode of Life Bursts with Matt and Sarah, we were joined by John Robert Lucas, a former minister turned spiritual healer. John's journey is nothing short of extraordinary, filled with unexpected twists, divine interventions, and a series of invitations from God that led him down a path he never imagined. He is the author of UNLOCK THE POWER - How To Pray Specific Effective Supernatural Prayers.

John's story begins with his family history, tracing back to German immigrants who arrived in South Australia in 1858. Growing up in a household with a sports-loving father and a mother from a broken family, John found himself navigating a complex family dynamic. His academic inclinations set him apart, leading him to pursue teaching before answering a call to ministry.

Throughout the episode, John shared numerous anecdotes that highlighted his spiritual journey. From accidentally disrupting a church service with a laughing box to walking around a Salvation Army officer's house seven times at 3 AM, John's experiences paint a picture of a man constantly seeking to understand and follow God's will.

One of the most compelling aspects of John's story is his transition from traditional ministry to spiritual healing. Despite facing scepticism and resistance from some church communities, John persevered, eventually founding Walking Free, a ministry dedicated to spiritual healing.

Key Moments:

First encounter with God's voice: 
"I heard God speak to me and he said he loved me... it wasn't an audible voice, but it was real, a sense of a strong inner voice saying that he loved me."

Experiencing the Holy Spirit:
"I felt like I was a drunken sailor walking down Unley Road. And so it was amazing time. And I went to Dr. Wagner and he said, what's going on? I said, I explained to him, he said, well, that's the Holy Spirit."

Praying for his wife's cancer:
"It's a bit strange because here I'm supposed to be the guru of healing... But God has his own sense of humour."

Founding Walking Free:
"God started to talk to me says, you're not going back, we're going to... You're going to form your healing ministry and I'm going to help you."

Writing a book:
"He says, okay, now I want you to write a book, okay? To write up all that you've learned, everything that you do to do that."

FAQ:

Question: How did John transition from traditional ministry to spiritual healing?
Answer: John's transition was gradual, starting with experiences in Peterborough where he encountered demonic spirits and began learning about healing. His wife's battle with cancer further deepened his understanding and commitment to spiritual healing.

Question: How does John view the relationship between medical treatment and spiritual healing?
Answer: John believes in a holistic approach: "God uses the medical profession, professionals as well as prayer to do that. It's a combination. It's not one size fits all."

Question: What is John's approach to spiritual healing?
Answer: John developed a structured prayer ministry process and trained teams to work together. He emphasizes listening to God and addressing various aspects of a person's life, including generational issues and spiritual influences.

John's story challenges our understanding of spirituality and healing, blending traditional Christian beliefs with experiences that many would consider supernatural. His journey from a young man disrupting a church service with a laughing box to a spiritual healer addressing everything from personal traumas to haunted properties is both fascinating and thought-provoking.

His story serves as a reminder of the unexpected ways in which a spiritual journey can unfold. Whether one agrees with his approach or not, John's dedication to following what he believes to be God's invitations is undeniably inspiring. You can find his book available at https://revjohnlucas.com/

Life Bursts with Matt and Sarah continues to bring us these extraordinary stories, challenging our perceptions and inviting us to consider the various ways in which spirituality can manifest in our lives.

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Episode Transcript:

**Sarah Freeman:**

Welcome to Life Bursts. I'm Sarah.
**Matthew Carratt:**

And I'm Matt. And today, an invitation to a much bigger story. Stay tuned.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Guests, welcome to Life Bursts with Matt and Sarah. Today we are chatting with John. Thank you, John, for coming in on today's show.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Thank you for the invitation.
**Sarah Freeman:**

And let's start with our first question that we ask all of our guests. Where did life start, start out for you, John?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, that's a good question. I've been thinking about that, and what I discovered was my life started in Germany in 1858.
**Matthew Carratt:**

Okay, well, you're looking very good.
**John Robert Lucas:**

I'm looking good for 170 years, aren't I? Yes. So what happened in 1858 was a group of religious fanatics, Wendish people, who migrated because of religious persecution and the famine came to South Australia in 1858. So I'm a German, Lucas. And so that. Because I begin to wonder, as I found out a bit about my history, why did I end up like I am and the work that I do and everything like that? And I began to understand that way back then, even though I had no history of church, no history of Christianity, in many ways back then, there was a root there that was a little shooting that was started to form right back then. And so they came to Gawler River and we found a little bit more about it all. So there were about seven brothers and sisters that came out to it all, which is really exciting. And so my grandfather, he was a very talented man. He made a fortune and lost it. He made a fortune with inventions for agriculture. But then the 1930s depression came along and he lost everything. Now, the other interesting thing about my family was that he married the daughter of a Greek sea captain. And so, in other words, my grandmother was Greek, and my father, my grandfather, had German roots. Now, that became really obvious to me as I looked at my grandmother, who was short and dumpy, little Greek lady. And I wondered, why am I short and dumpy like a little Greek person? Why did I get that? Why did I look like that? And she was a fantastic lady because, you see, through the Depression, my grandfather became depressed, I imagine. And she was a very talented businesswoman. So what she did was to hire out large homes at Glenelg and became a boarder. So she boarded people and made an income by boarding people from holidays, Broken Hill, all of that through there. So that was really exciting. And then they had five children. And the good news is the youngest was my dad, who was a spoiled one, I was told by his sisters. And my dad was a very talented man. He was a sportsman. So basically, he swam for Australia in the Commonwealth games back in 1938 in Sydney. Now, I said, where, dad, where is your uniform? Did you. No, Grandma threw it away. Oh, no. I said, so my dad was a very talented sportsman. Water was his first love. So he not only swam, but he was a diver. And so he even judged diving for a state level and national level for 30 years. He was also a cricketer. He played golf. Everything, like everything he did, he was good at, and ended up playing league football for Glenelg. And so that's what happened. And so that sporting aspect was very much inlaid in me. I'm not a great sportsman, but I love sport. I love watching sport. And I discovered, why did I do that? And it really comes back to my father and his involvement. He also went to World War II, which is really quite a dramatic time. He was a rat at the brook. So he was in Palestine in the desert, fought in rubble. He was a signalman, and his job was to lay out the lines and then memorise Morse code and send Morse code through the signals of all this. And so it was really quite dangerous work going under there to do that. And so he tells me one story. What happens was that he was driving back and this guy wanted to ride back, and they were driving back and all these machine guns were just going, bullets going straight over him. And so he got up and the guy that I pulled up gave a ride home, jumped off, and they were really worried. But the day later at the camp, they saw him. Saw him and says, what happened to you? Did you get. No, I got scared. You were too dangerous going out through there. So. So then he went from there into Kokoda Trail, and he was on the Kota trail with Diver Derek. And Diver Derek won the bc, so. And so. So that's all the war, all of that. So I have an affinity to the return services, affinity to. To going and seeing what happens and all of that there. So that's my dad's side of it all. And then my mother was totally different.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Okay?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Mother was Irish. And don't do your. Don't sort out your grandmother's funeral because you find out there's a few skeletons in the cupboard. She was married five times. I couldn't believe it. Five times. And unfortunately, my mum came from a broken family. In other words, her dad was alcoholic. Kicked her out and they kicked him out. And so she really had not many, many fathers and didn't understand what family. So here's my dad, Greek background, big families, all of that, that's their nature and DNA. And mother who didn't know what family looked like. And so what happened is that they met at Myers, he was 32 and she was 21. Gorgeous lady. But underneath it all, low self esteem, she had a red hair, she had a bit of a temper. So all of this was part of my DNA of on the one side, my dad with the sporting, didn't like conflict, but like big family. My mum who is low self esteem felt rejected, all of those issues there. And so when it came to family gatherings for, for my family, Mum would stay home and dad would take us to the family gatherings. And so it was really quite a strange get up going there.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Did your mother ever like explain to you why she doesn't go or any of this or how did you find all of this out?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, basically in terms of it was obvious that she didn't go because she didn't go. Yeah, she was just stayed home.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yeah, yeah.
**John Robert Lucas:**

And it was only as you get older and you reflect upon it that you put the jigsaw puzzle to pieces and to do that and you discover why that was the case. She was. So she was the youngest of two girls but she didn't really get on. The two sisters didn't get on very well at all. So we had broken family on one side, big family on the other side. And so they were formed together then. I grew up in the post World War II and guess what? Mum and dad worked hard. Dad was a floor covering contractor, so he laid lino and carpets and things like that. And mum helped him, did the books and was out there doing all the hard work with him as well. And so guess what? I was the eldest of the three. Mum had a lot of trouble getting pregnant, a lot of miscarriages. Apparently I was one of two, but my twin got lost somewhere in the thing and my brother and sister were twins. And so mum was dealing with three children 18 months apart growing up. So that was a big learning curve for her too. So that was what was happening. So we grew up and in a time when we had to look after ourselves, Mum and Dad was working, I would come home, cook the tea, all of that. So a lot of independence, a lot of struggle. But you look back and it was a good life. It was a good life.
**Sarah Freeman:**

At the time though, what did you think?
**John Robert Lucas:**

At the time I hated golf. Mum and dad were golfers because golf took him away, you see, on Saturdays they played golf together. It was really. My mum became a State golfer. She was really good. But of course, that gave her esteem and everything like that. But it meant from a family point of view, they worked hard. Then on Saturdays we would look after ourselves. But Mum and Dad were playing golf in the afternoon. I'd have taken my brother and sister, we either went down to Glenelg to Grandma's, we went and saw a movie and then went to Grandma's place to be picked up. And then on Sunday mornings, Mum and dad played golf and we were out in the Sandhills for three hours by ourselves, entertaining ourselves while they were playing golf at Westwood Ho. And so while I appreciate golf and not a good golfer, but there was that deep down, this resentment that, you know, all of that we were held to look after ourselves and to do everything like that. And it became really, really a challenge in that sense. And of course, three siblings growing up, we just had as many fights as we had looking after each other.
**Sarah Freeman:**

So I'm sure you did.
**John Robert Lucas:**

It was different.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yes. Well, we will be back with more of John's story straight after this on Life Bursts with Matt and Sarah.
**Matthew Carratt:**

Welcome back to Life Bursts with Sarah and Matt. We're chatting to John and John, you've given us a good background of your family life. Not everyone takes us back that far, but it's helped, as you've explained, to shape you who you are today. Take us back to your childhood and yeah, those, those early years.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, I grew up at Glenelg and I was different to most of my family because I was academic. A lot of people were very business people, but I was not a business people. So at the primary school, went to Glenelg Primary School and I was quite an academic. I was in the top five at that time and that looked really good and that built my self esteem and feeling good about myself. Played a bit of sport and primary school. Then I went to Brighton High School and I was in the A stream and that worked out really well and decided to learn French and Latin and all of those languages as well. But in all, both primary school and high school, it was really a struggle to find a place of belonging. You know, you look for groups that you belong to. I was going to nickname, because of my short stature and fat appearance, that I was Humphrey and so they called me Humphrey. So that was. And I was the Humph. And so that became a label, if you like. I like music and dancing. And so we had dancing classes, but again we had socials and so whenever I asked a girl to dance, she politely said no. So that Reinforced my feelings about myself and everything like that. So it was really, really, really struggle in that sense of identity in what we're doing. Things changed politically and what happened was that Gough Whitlam, the Labour Party came in. It meant that university was free. And so my goal of able to be a teacher that I wanted to be at year five, I wanted to be a teacher to maths teacher. That was the goal and the opportunity to do that. So even though I only got straight seeds of matriculation, I got into Flinders University and that became an important place for me. But I was young, I was only 17 when I went to university. I was. My birthday was right at the beginning of the year and so I was always the youngest in the class and so I was able to drive at 16 and during my trick. But 17 changed things for me. What happened was my brother invited me to go to church. Now my brother was not at church. He found out that there were some good looking girls at this little church as you do, and it was a Sunday night service and so my mother had just come back from Sydney and she brought back one of those laughing boxes where you press the button came out. So we thought we'd put it into our pocket and go to church because it was a coffee lounge afterwards and everything like that. Well, we struck a lay preacher, this is nothing against lay preachers, but 45 minutes and he was still going. And you know, these are two guys who've never been to church before. Wooden pews, it's cold and you wriggle one more time and off it went. The laughing box went off. The girls in front of us, we're trying to hold back the laughter the whole service. He stopped the whole service. And then as we were leaving, he pointed, looked at me and he said, Satan sent you to stop this service?
**Sarah Freeman:**

Oh goodness.
**John Robert Lucas:**

So that was a bit of thing. But you see, even though that was the case, the people saw the funny side of it all, were thankful that the service stopped because they were getting a bit bored by the crowd and invited us to do that. And so we went to the coffee lounge and out of their love and their invitation, I came back. And I came back a couple of Sundays later and they're right. Sitting in that pew, I heard God speak to me.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Okay, I have to ask, did you take the laughing box with you again or did you learn?
**John Robert Lucas:**

No.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Okay, okay, you learned, I learned.
**John Robert Lucas:**

But I was labelled. Yeah, I was labelled, but anyway. And what I heard was God speak to me and he said he loved me and it's not that it wasn't an audible voice, but it was real, a sense of a strong inner voice saying that he loved me. And there is a sense of not only just loving me, but inviting me to join him.
**Sarah Freeman:**

That doesn't make any sense. I'm sorry, Joanne. Like, so you didn't hear a voice in your head, you just felt something.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Like whatever it was a feeling, a feeling, but it was also the words. So it wasn't an audible voice outside me, but it was something inside of me that were connected to me that I heard. And that he said, I love you, which is, you know, just like, transforming.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yeah, it sounds like it.
**John Robert Lucas:**

And then the invitation started. I started to go to church. I loved the Bible and I really wanted to get and explain the Bible to people, so they invited me to take services and be part of the youth service and things like that. But we had a problem. I was young, I was a Christian, 18, 19, and I asked too many questions. And when you're in church and you ask too many questions about things like that that are quite curly questions and they struggle to answer because you're supposed to believe literally what it says, you're not supposed to ask questions. It became a difficulty and so. And then I did some murmuring with the youth and I tried to be a voice for that. And it became obvious that my time at that church needs to change, which is a bit sad, but we have strong feelings of it all. So my friend invited me to Adelaide to Mourn Church, and that was a totally different thing, an evening service, mainly people of our own age, single people, people who struggle, and they did a contemporary worship. And part of that is they invited me to take leadership and that, in the end, was running that at Mourn Church. And it was an amazing experience and it really formed what I got myself in. Because, you see, the people who came weren't the recognised people. They were the least, the lost, the last of the community. We had one group we called the Four Musketeers. They were four poor gentlemen. Some were deaf, others couldn't speak. And this Keith was a very tall man and unfortunately, like methylated spirits too much. So when he spoke to you, he was up there right in. The gas is coming right off of him. So. But it was amazing because he came back a year or so later, he was there all the time. And he came back a year later, there was no methylated spirits. And he showed me the pictures. He took these other three guys on the bus to the Gold coast and showed them all around. The Gold coast and brought them back again. And that, and that, that sort of just touched my heart. Here's a guy who people didn't would write off and yet he had something in him. God somehow changed him, took him off the methylated spirits and gave him the capacity to look after these three other guys and they were like brothers together. That's why we called them the Four Musketeers. And that was really exciting in that moment. It was an invitation that was there. I met my wife there at Maugham Church and it was a time when the Uniting Church was being formed and so it was a time of exploration. Back at the Baptist church, Meanwhile, back at the Baptist, just earlier on, I went on to a church, exchanged a dandelion Baptist, and that's when I felt the call of the spirit through the preaching to think about being a minister. But my problem is I'm trained to be a teacher and I still got study to do. What do I do? Do I toss everything in? Because I also run a Commonwealth scholarship, so I was committed to the Commonwealth for three years to teach. So I decided to complete the teaching and to worry about that call afterwards.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Right, okay, so you met your wife. This is my question that I always ask, as you know, because you watch show you met at church, but how did it happen? How did it unfold?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Ah, that was interesting. We met at a New Year's Eve party, January, New Year's Eve party. I was there with a friend of mine who was a doctor and we were talking about eyeing off this young girl and she looked really good. She just come back and she looked very beautiful and everything. He was slow as a wet week, you know, he was. It didn't really bother. So I said, so basically we invited to take her home and it was a bit rocky because she wasn't impressed that in a week's time I was going to leave and take two girls to Queensland on a holiday to take them back to parents and things like that. And so after the initial fling, as I say, I was dropped like a hot potato. But however, I was determined. We came back and March, we reconnected and so we fell in love, which was really good. We were going to Godfrey's on Port Road and the carpets, the carpets for everything like that, just as you do to look at cupboards and things like that. And so I went to the toilet and I sat at the toilet there and I said, God, is this the.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Girl for me right in the toilet?
**John Robert Lucas:**

So it was a legitimate question. I didn't hear Any audible voice. But I opened the door and there was this huge sign Elizabeth there, which is her name and I thought it was a sign. Later I realised that is all the goods going to Elizabeth and that's why Elizabeth was there. But I saw it as a sign from God that Elizabeth was the one to be my wife.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Lovely. Well, we're going to come back and hear more of John's story straight after this on Life Bursts with Matt and Sarah. Welcome back to Life Bursts here with Matt and Sarah. Today we are chatting with John. We just heard the hilarious story about how he met his wife and that he walked out of the toilet after asking God for a sign whether you should marry your wife and you walked out and the sign was a literal sign that said Elizabeth, which was her name. So you obviously married her.
**John Robert Lucas:**

I did.
**Sarah Freeman:**

You did.
**John Robert Lucas:**

So she was doing a midwifery course and so we met in January, we were engaged in September and the following January, yeah, we were married at ma church and so it was really quite quick. Her dad was worried because it was so quick. He thought she was pregnant but that wasn't the case. He was really happy because his previous daughters married students and I was a teacher, so he was happy about that. Then he discovered that in that the first year of marriage, I decided to become a student again. And so that's when I applied to be a minister in the Uniting Church, went to the whole examination process and was accepted. And so we started in 1978 doing four years at park and Wesley College. It was, I talked, I was going out with other girls beforehand and talked about being a minister and everything like that and they weren't really interested in that sort of idea. So that's why we didn't have that relationship. So I didn't talk much about it to my wife, Liz. So when I mentioned that I was going to think about entering the ministry. Sure, sure. She said, yeah, it was okay. Not thinking that anything was going to happen. It was going to take a few years. Well, I went on to the weekend in October and was accepted and all of a sudden school was finished and we started college. She was midwife doing work and I was a student again. And so we worked hard for four years at Parker Missouri College. I did a Bachelor of Divinity because a lot was from Melbourne, which turned out to be the best thing about it all and I'll let fly about that a bit sooner. So we did four years and everything was good. We had a baby, Naomi, and so we were looking forward to our first appointment at Meningie I'd always hoped that I was going to be a lecturer, you know, and I want to be a teacher lecturer. Okay.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yeah.
**John Robert Lucas:**

And so the idea of a Bachelor of Divinity was the first step in getting some academic qualification. Okay, so back. So we were down at Meningie. We were appointed to Meningie. That was a great place. We lived at Meningie. And all the churches were 50Ks away that I looked after. I did 40,000Ks in a year. So I looked after Coomandook, Kanapa (sic), Nurrung, Malinong, all of those places in there. And there are a whole lot of stories there of hitting kangaroos, turning my car over on the first Good Friday service and not showing up to the final Good Friday service. All of those things were there. But it was a really great time there and it was a very special time. But then I found out in 1986 of my final year that a doctoral ministry programme was being started at the Bible College in South Australia. And so what happened was that Peter Wagner came with Eddie Gibbs and I started that course thinking that I'll do a Doctorate of Ministry and that will provide the academic qualifications to be a lecturer. Well, two things happened there. Firstly, Dr. Wagner always asked someone to pray and he said to people, I'm going to pray about it and Lord will show me the person I'll invite to pray to begin the sessions. And so one day I was listening and what happened was that the guy behind me and others says, I know who know who got Wagner is going to ask. And his mate said, how do you know? Well, I asked God and he told me and so blow me down, he said, this is the name. And then Dr. Wagner came out and says, I like X to do it. And he was spot on. And that really rocked my boat, that actually God can talk and talks to people and that became a desire within me. If he can talk to. In the Bible, if he talked to this guy, why can't he talk to me?
**Matthew Carratt:**

Good question.
**John Robert Lucas:**

The other thing that happened to me was during the breaks, Dr. Wagner prayed for people's backs. And so he. So I'm curious, you know, I like seeing what this is. I was not interested, but I was curious. So I stood there and he was praying for the back and all of a sudden something happened to me. What? We recognised that the Holy Spirit came upon me and I started feeling giddy and I started feeling a bit strange in myself and I just fobbed it off. It must have been the food I ate, you know, as you do that. But Then I was walking down for lunch down Unley Road and it blow me down, it happened again. And I felt like I was a drunken sailor walking down Unley Road. And so it was amazing time. And I went to Dr. Wagner and he said, what's going on? I said, I explained to him, he said, well, that's the Holy Spirit. So that's the next invitation that I got from God. Okay, so am I going to be a lecturer or am I going to do what God wants me to do? And it turned out to be in his healing ministry. Okay, so that was there. So we got an invitation to go to Peterborough. Peterborough at that time was nicknamed Hell. It was a railway town. And it was nine years, but a difficult time, but a great time at the same time. I was appointed as a joint Anglican and Uniting Church minister. So I started off with the Anglican Church and two things happened in the Anglican, Anglican Church, not the United Church, the Anglican Church.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Okay?
**John Robert Lucas:**

One is we're running a ladies group and we're praying and all of a sudden a male voice came out of this lady, says, she's mine, you're not going to have her. And it says, far out. They didn't train me for this at college. What's going on here? And so what I discovered was that this was a demonic spirit speaking as a male voice through this lady.
**Sarah Freeman:**

How is something like that allowed to do that?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, I think God allowed that for me. Certainly the lady didn't want. And she needed ministry, she needed help. And so all of a sudden I was invited to think about Satan and demons. And if people are being caught up like that, how do you set them free?
**Sarah Freeman:**

So how did you set her free?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, I didn't do a very good job.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Oh, okay.
**John Robert Lucas:**

I prayed my little heart out initially and then I said, well, I promised myself I wouldn't get caught short again. So I had to do a lot of reading and understanding to work out how am I going to help people like that. The other thing that happened to me was again, in the Anglican Church, in the Anakin Church. It was pretty cold there in wintertime. Peterborough. And so they have a set order of service and you have a scripture verse to start off the services and everything like that. So the scripture service for the day was from Jeremiah 29:11. I know the plans I have for you. Plans I'll give you a hope or a future. And I started reading it out and it was just all of a sudden I did hear the audible voice of God saying that to me that even As I was reading it, they were hearing my voice, but I was hearing.
**Sarah Freeman:**

God's voice in your head or heart or everywhere. Okay.
**John Robert Lucas:**

And so much so, it just rocked my boat. And I really had to get my life together because I had to take a service. And here is God sort of challenging me to say that I have a plan for you. And he didn't expand exactly what that plan was, but all of a sudden he was inviting me to answer his plan. And so all of that nine years, I had to learn his plan. I had to learn about demons and how to help people who have struggled with it. He started bringing people who could hear from him, had prophetic ministries. I had to train them up and help them to do that. And I had to pray through the community, which I was there. One day or one evening he woke me up and said, I want you to go around seven times around the Salvation army officers manse where they lived. Here we are 3:00 in the morning. I had my Ugg boots on. I was praying hard. Please don't let a dog wake me up or wake them up. But you see, the Salvation army officer had really health struggles, really, really problems. And so I had to be faithful and true and say, lord, if you want me to do that, I know it sounds crazy, but I'll do it.
**Sarah Freeman:**

At 3:00am in the morning.
**John Robert Lucas:**

3:00Am in the morning, praying hard that no dog is going to bark and walking around and hopefully through that likely, like Joshua did at the walls of Jericho, that the walls around this guy's life will fall down and something good will happen to him.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Okay, well, we're gonna come back after the break to find out if something did happen from what seems like a really weird situation to be in, walking around building seven times. But we will come back with more of Life Bursts straight after this with Matt and Sarah.
**Matthew Carratt:**

This is Life Bursts with Sarah and Matt. We're chatting to John. And John, you have been feeling and sensing these invitations from God and you're at the point where even as a, a minister, you're being asked or you feel like you're being asked by God to do some very strange things.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Yes.
**Matthew Carratt:**

So you're walking around the Salvation army at the middle of the night seven times. Seven times. As instructed. What happened for you?
**Sarah Freeman:**

What happened?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, it was very interesting is that. And it's a sad story is that he continued to struggle. He needed help and prayer, but didn't take up the invitation. And so he, he was a Truckee and he smoked. And if you're a Salvation army. And you smoke, you're not allowed to be in the core. And his wife was really more of a core person than that. So the marriage actually separated and he in the end took his own life, which is, you know, a sad outcome, but it could have been better. But God invites, but he lets us to answer the invitation the way that we want to.
**Matthew Carratt:**

So did that shake you? Did that cause you to go back and question?
**John Robert Lucas:**

No. I've learned that over the years that people have their own choices to make, and that's important to them and it's important to God. He doesn't force anything. So what happened was that it was nine years at Peterborough. The kids loved it, my wife hated it. And I knew that I had to be there because it was a training ground for me. I did a lot of ministry, a lot of work understanding everything like that. And so my whole thesis I was writing was changing from growing small churches, which I was doing quite effectively, to now the healing ministry of Jesus and putting a framework in to understand that. So the last four years was a real tension between my wife, who wanted to go to Adelaide, and I believe God wanted me to stay there. And it was difficult for her. The bonus for her was that God was close to her and she actually was given the gift of speaking in tongues during that time. But at the beginning of my. The ninth year, she said, if you don't. If we don't leave, I'm leaving you. Which is pretty tough. But I understood that. So I prayed about it. And the Lord says, no, it's okay. You are leaving and I'm going to take you to Tusmore Park Uniting Church. Right.
**Matthew Carratt:**

Back in Adelaide.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Back in Adelaide.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, I said, that's great. So I signed up and everything like that. And I waited for it to happen. Well, what happened was that they asked someone different. They didn't ask me. And, you know, each month went by and I was waiting for this invitation. I said, did I hear right? Am I getting it right? Anyway, they invited another guy. And part of the reason was they get my application and they read through what I was involved with, with healing and everything. I went straight to the bottom of the list.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Even though that's what you're saying that Jesus was doing? Yeah.
**John Robert Lucas:**

So what happened was that in the end, the guy who said yes, then said no, he wanted to stay one more year where he was. And so in the end they invited me to Tasmopa (sic). And so that was another change of dynamic because all of a sudden God started sending me people with really complex health issues. And I had to work out what I was doing. At the same time, I was growing a church and we grew a second service. We had people coming back from the life of the church. It was a more modern service. And we worked out how to do a worship time that enabled the Holy Spirit to visit and people to encounter him. And that was an exciting time. And at the same time, with all these people coming, God brought people to help me. So we started pools of healing. And I had about 10 people on the list. I trained up, and Tuesday nights and Thursday nights, they were there in my hall praying for people who signed up, who wanted help in that way. And so I really blossomed and grew in that way, which was really exciting for eight years. It was good. The worst part is, in the third year, in 1998, our wall, our own life was torn apart because my wife contracted cancer. So she had a uterine cancer that went into the bloodstream, became a lung cancer, then she had a brain tumour. So for 12 months we're fighting for her life. And it's a bit strange because here I'm supposed to be the guru of healing.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yes, that's right. You're supposed to know it and doing it for other people. But by the sounds of it, it wasn't working.
**John Robert Lucas:**

No, it was not. It was ironic, but God was providing. He provided the gynaecologist because there weren't many openings in the gynaecologist. So he gave us a guy who was very good, but he was being sued for malpractice. But he. He had experienced cancer with his child and so he knew and identified that. We went to a couple of people who were supposed to have the gift of healing. So we went forward, but a lady who we knew in the congregation came up to listen and said, God said to me, you've got to forgive the doctor who didn't diagnose you. So that was the first step of the healing, was to diagnose. So every after that, she forgave the doctor, wrote a letter, a lady Christian doctor. And then we started praying for every Sunday, every as much as we can. And everything was going well, but nothing was happening. Did all the things that you're supposed to do. I'm supposed to be the guru, but God has his own sense of humour. Catholic lady, Catholic lady. You know, nothing happens in the Catholic church, but a Catholic lady came and there's a lot does happen in the Catholic Church. This lady came after church and we knew her, but she doesn't come regularly. Came, laid hands upon her chest and Liz felt the power of God go through her. And all the lung cancer started to disappear. Amazing.
**Sarah Freeman:**

How did she know it was disappearing?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, because, you see, you've got. You go to the doctor, don't you? And you go to the doctor and they do tests and all of a sudden that which is all spotty has now disappeared.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Wow.
**Matthew Carratt:**

Wow.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Along with the chemo and everything. God used to do all of that. But then the brain tumour really rocked her socks and she really tossed it in for three days. She gave up on God. But that was. She worked it through and then decided that it was okay. And God gave her a picture. She was sitting there in our house and she saw the rainbow on her leg through the glass. And the. And the thought that came to her was that she was healed of cancer in the same way that there was no more flood. With the story of Noah and the rainbow coming. So she felt there was no more cancer. And that's been true. 26 years later, she has not had any scarring of cancer, which is amazing, really.
**Sarah Freeman:**

It is, yeah. Because a lot of the time that does not happen.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Yeah.
**Matthew Carratt:**

So that was. Yeah, again, a time of wrestling for you, with you both as you knew the stuff you'd experienced. Lots of incredible things, lots of healing.
**John Robert Lucas:**

With other people, but then not me, but somebody else for my wife. And that was exciting. And we always believe that God uses the medical profession, professionals as well as prayer to do that. It's a combination. It's not one size fits all. Everyone is different. So God has a health plan for all of us, but we have to stick to his health plan. And sometime it will be prayer that will be involved, but not necessarily. There'll be medication, doctors as well, psychologists, psychiatrists. The whole works are used by God to do that. So I've learned that we do our bit with God and they do their bit and together we can get healing in that way.
**Sarah Freeman:**

So it's like you have to listen and follow God to know what to do. Which from what you're saying, sounds pretty unique within a church because.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Yeah, well, yeah, it was, except the church didn't like it. They didn't want my healing being taken. Their church time taken up with all the healing I've been doing.
**Sarah Freeman:**

But isn't that the whole point of Jesus ministry?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Like I thought so told us to do that. But remember that not everyone believes in supernatural healing. Not everyone believes even in churches that. And churches have their own agendas and their own desires. And so it became obvious that would have.
**Matthew Carratt:**

You believed it until you saw it.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yeah.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Ooh, no. Well, it goes back to Peterborough when I saw God doing there. And then we had these complex issues and see what happened was that God said to me, you've got to develop a programme. So I developed a prayer ministry process and I trained people in it so it wasn't dependent upon me, but we could do a team work and we follow the process and work with Jesus and things will be better with it all. And so I trained people out, we formed pools of healing and we had about 10 on the team and people came and some people could hear from God better than others, some people knew the process and together as a team they prayed through all the areas that need to be done and it was really quite exciting times. The sad thing is the church, church could have had it and it could have been amazing ministry, but they didn't want it. So it was time to move on.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yes. So we'll be back with more of John's story straight after this here on Life Bursts with Matt and Sarah. Welcome back to Life Bursts here with Matt and Sarah. Today we are chatting with John and it's very interesting. Everyone's story is interesting, but this one in particular, you were working with a church for a church and you're doing healing ministry and the church didn't really like that. So what did you do? Did you go out on your own? Did you keep doing it or did you just stop doing it?
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, again, God invites us. So the invitation came out of the blue to go to Queensland to Rainsville Uniting Church and Freedom Life Centre. But very quickly Rainsville Uniting Church arrived in the February, they left the Uniting Church for various issues and Freedom Life. And then with Freedom Life we had issues with the previous person who was looking after it and there were some issues there and so we had some tension there. But at the same time I ran three conferences where the presence of God was so powerful that people were just transformed by all sorts of things. We learned about banner waving and people walking through and the presence of God was so powerful they virtually had to crawl through because the presence of God was so strong. But what happened at the end of the third year was that they didn't want me for various reasons. So then I thought we would have to go back to Adelaide with my tails between my legs. And then we went to Cool for two weeks. The first week was a lot of tears because we gave up a lot to leave our kids and everything. And so then the second week God started to talk to me says, you're not going back, we're going to. You're going to form your healing ministry and I'm going to help you. And so what happened was we formed Walking Free. We found sponsorship to make it a half time ministry. So we looked for people who would give money. We applied to the ATO and over two goes we were able to get tax deductibility for what we're doing. And so all of a sudden people were ringing up. We're doing phone ministries, we're doing ministries face to face. We were going around places, all of that sort of thing. And so again, people with a whole range of needs started to come to our doorstep. And we developed a prayer process and which I took from Adelaide to there and began to see what God was going to do in that way. And then we were there for six years in Toowoomba, three years at the church, then three years I was part time and helping people. Then we went to four years at Coolangatta and we had amazing, amazing stories. We got rung up, are you the ghostbuster? And we were invited. I was interviewed on the local radio about a guy who had things going bump in the night. These are not Christian people. So he invited us to come down. He and his wife had come back from Bali and brought a whole lot of stuff back from Bali. But what he brought back was all the spirits that were there. So his lights were going on and off, things were going bump in the night. And so he called us to come and to pray through his house.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Oh, wow.
**John Robert Lucas:**

And so we did. And what happened was that afterwards nothing was there. It was all gone. We dealt with what the problems were and he was just amazed that these are not Christians. These are people who heard about me and to do that. So we had all these experiences. We went to Woodenbong, to a cattle property which had lost cattle pasture, and we prayed through that. We discovered that there was a lot of problems in the early parts with aboriginal people fighting each other, killing each other. And that impacted and affected the land, defiled the land. And so we prayed through all of that. We had to pray through a guy who hung himself in the. In one of the sheds there and had to deal with all of that. And so we cleaned up, spiritually cleaned up that whole place, that property. And 12 months later we got a phone call from two brothers who owned the property. Pastures were back green as anything and cattle were producing calves two or three times. So the whole business just was turned around because we prayed through the whole property and got rid of all the problems that were on the property, all.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Because they'd allowed Jesus to be on the property and to be there in the land. All of the problems, the darkness, it just went because Jesus, and he does.
**John Robert Lucas:**

That with people's lives too, all the problems of their people's lives, he can clean it up and it's not hard for him. But we have to be willing to do that.
**Sarah Freeman:**

In that sense, that invitation that you.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Keep talking about, he always invites us to come to do that.
**Matthew Carratt:**

A lot of people might say that they are, they're spiritual and they're open to that, but they're not religious. But what you're, you're saying, and I know you've only skimmed the surface of your story, is that even as a minister in an organised church, you've seen spiritual things happen and real and powerful things happen that have actually transformed not just people, but communities, properties, churches.
**John Robert Lucas:**

We've had to pray through churches because they weren't functioning very well. So we pray, same sort of principles, praying for a person's life and dealing with their rubbish deals with the property, whether it be a church building or another, we've invited to businesses, all of those things. So blow and behold, this is opened up like Pandora's box and everything. But the same principles that we applied in dealing with the problems and getting the people to say sorry to God and saying for the problems, God says, good, I hear what you're saying. I'll clean up your life, I'll clean up your property, I'll clean up your business for you. And even if you're not a committed ticket holding Christian, going to church, it doesn't matter with God. If you're really serious about wanting a thing cleaned up, he's more than happy to do that. And that's what happened as well. So Walking Free was started in 2007 and that was really cool. But then we came back to Adelaide and continued that in 2019. I finished as a minister. Walking Free finished last year. And then he says, okay, now I want you to write a book, okay? To write up all that you've learned, everything that you do to do that. I says, okay, I can do that. And so then I said, well, it's all ready to write a book, but I really need to get to America to publish it because that's where all the crazies are. That's where everything happens over there, all over there. So what happened was that last Christmas I went on to bookproposals.com paid $150 to get on there and with my book process, because I'd written the whole book beforehand and get onto it and then blow and behold, two days later, Advantage Books from Florida, a Christian organisation, said, we like your book, we want to publish it. So now I'm in the process of writing it, getting it published, going through all the rewrites and everything like that, so that all that I've learned is out there for people to be able to get hold of.
**Sarah Freeman:**

That's right. When it's available, we'll chuck it in the comments.
**John Robert Lucas:**

Well, it hopes to be up by end of July, August. So we're getting there, the process is getting there and it'll be quite exciting in that sense. And. But, you know, cost is an investment. It's going to cost me about 7,000 Australian dollars with all the things. It'll go out as a book and an ebook and even when it's sold, then I only get a small amount back. So it's really a step of faith, of getting my money back, but it really doesn't matter, it's an investment to the column. So that's really exciting. But you see that there's more and I haven't told you about this, but you see what happens is not only did God invite me to write a book previously, he invited me to go to India and Kenya to pray for people, to teach people. And again, it's the same process. God, you know, God is working everywhere. He wants an intimate relationship with you, but he wants, he invites you to join him. But there's a step of faith. That's got to be faith. It's a crisis of belief. Is he calling me? Is he doing that? And are you willing to be obedient to what he says? So I get all these emails from people overseas, blah, blah, and so you pop them off, but all of a sudden God says, no, I want you to go there. So we've helped two brothers, we funded two churches in India, and now with my previous church, we also funded a church in Kenya. And so it's been amazing to have that relationship and going over there, training pastors, praying for people, seeing God move and act in mighty ways. It's an amazing thing. Tell you one story was we had a lady who was about 7 and she had a really bad back and she was really bent over. And so we came to this meeting and says, can I pray for you? And she said, yes. So I prayed for her and I prayed for her back and nothing really seemed to happen. I said, can you do something that you could never do before. Here's a 70 year old. Blow me down. She did forward roll in front of me.
**Sarah Freeman:**

What even I said, what are you doing?
**John Robert Lucas:**

And then we're running another meeting and this guy was woken up by God and to come to the meeting. He was sitting in the back of the church and we had a monsoon and a lot of people couldn't come. And so he was sitting there and what happened was that I was just talking as I normally do and everything like that. And so I said, he put up his hand and he says because we asked for testimonies and things, I put up. Yes. Well, God woke me up. I didn't receive an invitation to this meeting, but I came because God told me he came. And as I'm sitting there, he healed my back and I'm free. Amazing.
**Matthew Carratt:**

That's fantastic. Well, John, you've shared so many stories and I'm sure as you were when you were younger, it's raising a lot of questions in those who are listening and watching. But thank you for just sharing us a glimpse into this world that you've stepped into and full of surprises and invitations as well. Really appreciate it.
**Sarah Freeman:**

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You can catch up with Life Bursts wherever you get your podcasts from on community television, radio and of course, all over social media. This has been Life Bursts. I'm Sarah.
**Matthew Carratt:**

And I'm Matt. Thank you again for joining us.
**Voice-Over:**

Life Bursts is hosted by Matthew Carratt and Sarah Freeman with production by Rhys Jarrett and Keykhosrow Azadegan. For more episodes of Life Bursts, go to https://rawcut.au, this is a RawCut Production.

Life Bursts with Matt & Sarah

Life Bursts with Matt & Sarah

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Each week, Matthew Carratt along with co-host Sarah Freeman will be discovering the fascinating story of someone interesting and giving them the space to tell it in full. Life Bursts will tell the stories of the people you do know, don't know, and the people you should know. Because we live on a planet of 8 billion people, that means there are over 8 billion stories to tell, and 8 billion opportunities to learn from the stories we hear.

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